Tag: cider

Kviek numbers

stoutmakerLeave a comment

This past cider “brew” had some interesting numbers. And by interesting, I mean confusing. I can only tell you the observations and reactions of what I have taken notes and measurements on.

I think we have all made a basic cider at one time or another. Apple juice, some sugar and some yeast. And we got a basic thin, dry as a bone cider. Some people like that, some don’t. Those that don’t usually do one or both of two things to get a sweeter cider.
-back sweeten
-use beer yeast

Back sweetening is just purposely killing off the yeast in order to add a sugar to sweeten it back up without it refermenting. Or adding an unfermentable sugar like lactose or Stevia (both completely change the flavor of said cider)

But by using the beer yeast, the yeast stops early enough to keep the cider sweet and have some body. Plus beer yeast has multiple profiles of flavor and aroma esters that one can play with.

So this last cider that I did I used the dried Voss Kviek yeast. Its generally regarded as a beer yeast. And most of us by now have used a Kviek and see that it does perform just as other beer yeasts do, with predictable numbers and flavors but with bigger temp ranges.
With the cider however we got something different. While the flavors were what we expected for the temp range that I used (60F which Voss Kviek gives stonefruit.. Peach, nectarine plum…) the final gravity was down to 0.996. Nothing like what a beer yeast would do. And thats intriguing for all kinds of reasons.

But first, let’s run through some of the numbers that different yeasts have done for me through the past 10 years or so. These will look very familiar to you.

Beer numbers
Nottingham: 1046-1010, 1050-1010, 1066-1012
US05: 1056-1008, 1066-1008
US04: 1058-1010, 1042-1008
Voss Kviek: 1052-1008, 1040-1008

Cider numbers
Nottingham: 1062-1010, 1070-1012
US05: 1060-1008
US04: 1080-1014
Voss Kviek: 1070-0.996


Note: Here is one of the problems I have here today. While I have made plenty of ciders with several different types of yeast for decades, I don’t have much for actual written numbers from long ago as I was more concerned with the beer side, and the cider numbers were reliable enough they didn’t warrant keeping track. Not until about 12 years ago when I started this blog did I start to jot down cider numbers. And even then just sporadically. Sure I took the measurements to see whats going on, but they were so reliable time after time that I just stopped writing them down. And only recently started with the Kviek so do not have a ton of available personal numbers.

As you can see, I fully expected to see similar cider numbers from the Kviek because they were producing similar numbers as the beer yeasts when used in beer. But I’m still trying to figure out why they didn’t carry over to cider.

The cider is the simple version of just the juice, a bit of sugar and yeast and is perfectly on par with the taste of a beer yeast cider. There’s the apple of course, and the Kviek added the peach. No off flavors or flaws, clear. A great cider. Just 10% and drier as compared to the expected 7ish% and sweeter
But why does it act so differently in a cider than in a beer?

With a quick look at these numbers, some would say its because there are all those unfermentables in the beer.
While this is true, it cannot be the only reason the yeast stops working when it does because the beer yeasts are pulling the same-ish numbers in the cider that doesn’t have those unfermentables, and it’s being force fed nutrients to keep them going but they still stop as predicted. Plus we would see much lower numbers if the Kviek was munching on something else in the beer that regular yeast does not.

Can’t be the abv. We have a smear of range here and they act the same, plus we know that ones I have listed can go much higher in abv and still follow predicted numbers with little or no help.

Ph? I didn’t measure, and it could be a possibility. But I would expect to see this reflected somehow in the Kviek beer numbers. Plus I think the sour people would have latched on to this by now.

I’m still not sure why Kviek seems to act differently in a cider environment than it does in beer. But It’s good to know that it does, so one can plan around it, and plan other things,, like wine?
If I am missing something obvious here, let me know. Until then I’m going to use what I have seen to my advantage.

Kviek Cider Notes

stoutmakerLeave a comment

These are my taste notes on the Kviek Cider. Its now been two weeks now since I bottled it.

The quick rundown of where we are now. 3 gallons Walmart Great Value apple juice, 1lb brown sugar, 1 pkt Voss Kviek DRY yeast, 2 tsp nutrient at pitch. Fermented at 60F. Bottled, no priming. I wanted to keep it as simple as I could to get the best profile of what this yeast will do. I added ALL of the nutrients at pitch, since this yeast works so fast the normal staggered dosage would not work.

The first time I tasted the cider was two weeks after pitch. It was done probably 2-3 days after pitch, but because this yeast doesnt like to drop I let it sit as long as I could.

What I initially was getting from it at bottling day was a semi sweet cider with little apple character left. Not much for apple, but there was a bit of nectarine. And what I take as residual sweetness. But at .996 i find that hard to believe,, but it even has a little body to it.
I wasnt surprised that the apple wasnt there because this was a violent 2ish day ferment, and that drives off a lot of the character of the fruit.
Aroma is somewhere between a cider, and a blast of Kviek yeast cake. Mostly because there is still a bit of yeast in suspension.
Very slight Alcohol burn,, but so little you might almost miss it unless you were looking for it. But at the 10% that it finished at,, I was sorta expecting some heat. But a lot more than this.  

At bottling day, two weeks after pitch. It was a very drinkable cider. As far as 10% goes.

So here we are now 2 week after bottling. 4 weeks since pitch. It has really cleared up. But very little sediment. Seems quite compact for how long it takes to flocc out. 

Now it smells like a cider. Not a big apple bomb, but apple for sure, plus some of that nectarine. Nothing for yeast like before. Taste is pretty much the same thing, but more apple now and more of that nectarine or peach maybe now.
The alcohol burn has mellowed, making this a pretty easy drinker. But at the 10% it jumps on ya pretty quick.

The dryness is now a bit more noticeable, but I don’t think I would call it dry. There is a sweetness there and it still has an OK body to it. This certainly does not feel like a 0.996 finish at all. 

So I think this cider combo was a complete success. Getting a drinkable 10% cider thats not gasoline would have been fine. Getting one that tastes as good as this is unbelievable. 

None of the flavors are overpowering, so this will be the perfect candidate for adding flavor to. I don’t think I would have thought peach would go well in a cider, so maybe we should get on that wagon next.. After all, peaches are at the farmers markets right now. We will see

Kviek Cider Bottling

stoutmakerLeave a comment

Pitched the dry Kviek two weeks ago. Its time to get this bottled up and see how it turned out. Kept this very basic so I could see what this yeast was going to do not only with cider, but at these temps. I only every used Kviek at the high end, 90-100F but down here the temps were only 60.

When I took the final gravity, I was surprised to see that. I didnt expect it to go that low. Was expecting it to act like a a regular beer yeast and stop much sooner. Normally a cider thats 0.996 is pretty damn dry. But this isnt. And I’m not sure why.

It has some sweetness AND a decent body. Its of course still a bit hazy from the Kviek, but not nearly as bad as the past liquid versions. Whether thats because this is a cider, not a beer, or there is something different between the liquid and dry versions I dont know. The yeast thats in suspension lends its typical “Kviek Taste” but that will go away as it drop out and clears. There is still good amount of apple character, poking thru, plus a quite a bit of fresh peach flavor which I assume is from the lower ferment temps.

The )

OG on this was 1.070 and finished at .996 for an ABV of around 9.8%… in two weeks. While there is juuuust the slightest bit of alc hotness, it is very drinkable right now. A bit of age on it should smooth all of the rough edges on it,, but two weeks for as simple as this was is pretty amazing.

So, right out of the bottling bucket I am quite happy with the results. And I know it is going to get better in the next couple weeks, so Ill come back and give the final review of this batch then.